>> WE TURN NOW TO A NEW DOCUMENTARY SERIES THROWING FRESH LESSONS FROM THE MOST DEVASTATING CONFLICT IN MODERN HISTORY.

>> FOR SIX DARK YEARS, THE WORLD WAS ON FIRE.

A CONFLICT THAT TOPPLED EMPIRES AND RESHAPED THE MODERN WORLD.

NO PART OF THE GLOBE WAS UNTOUCHED.

NO LIFE UNCHANGED.

THE SECOND WORLD WAR IS THE LARGEST EVENT IN HUMAN HISTORY.

>> WORLD WAR II WITH TOM HANKS TAKES VIEWERS ACROSS THE FULL SCOPE OF THE CONFLICT FROM THE RISE OF FASCISM IN EUROPE TO THE FALL OF BERLIN AND ONTO PEARL HARBOR, HIROSHIMA AND THE AMERICANA TO FOLLOW.

HE CONTINUES HIS VAST CONTRIBUTION TO WORLD WAR II HISTORY.

FOR INSTANCE, WITH FILMS LIKE SAVING PRIVATE RYAN .

JON MEACHAM IS AN EXECUTIVE PRODUCER ON THE SERIES AND SPOKE TO WALTER ISAACSON ABOUT THE PARALLELS HE SEES BETWEEN THEN AND NOW.

>> WELCOME BACK TO THE SHOW.

>> THANK YOU.

>> YOU ARE THE EXECUTIVE PRODUCER, ONE OF THE STARS OF THE 20 PART SERIES ON WORLD WAR II WITH TOM HANKS.

TELL ME WHY THIS IS A GOOD TIME TO BE RE-EXAMINING WORLD WAR II.

>> AS TOM SAYS IN THE NARRATION, IT IS THE LARGEST EVENT IN HUMAN HISTORY.

IT BEGINS, AS YOU KNOW, IN THE 1930s.

WE CAN ARGUE IT BEGINS EVEN BEFORE THAT BECAUSE OF THE FALLOUT FROM THE FIRST WORLD WAR.

BUT IT BEGINS IN A VERY FAMILIAR WAY.

THE STRONG VERSUS THE WEAK.

A DESIRE FOR TERRITORY.

A DESIRE FOR NATIONALISTIC CONTROL , FOR RACIAL SUPERIORITY .

AND IT ENDS WITH THE CAPACITY FOR US TO DESTROY ALL OF HUMAN CIVILIZATION WITH THE SPLITTING OF THE ADAM.

--ATOM .

YOU HAD SO MANY STORIES AND INSTANCES OF HOW OUR WORLD NOW WORKS FROM THE AMERICAN PRODUCTIVE CAPACITY TO THE IDEALS OF DEMOCRACY VERSUS AUTOCRACY , AND THE ESSENTIAL POINT OF NEVER AGAIN.

NEVER ALLOWING THE ATTEMPTED EXTERMINATION OF AN ENTIRE PEOPLE.

>> YOU SAY IT IS THE MOST IMPORTANT EVENT MAYBE IN HUMAN HISTORY, MODERN HISTORY.

WHAT DIDN'T REALLY CHANGE?

>> IT ENDED AUTOCRACY AT THE HEART OF EUROPE.

IT ENDED THE FASCIST REGIMES OF GERMANY AND JAPAN AND ITALY.

IT SHOWED THAT DEMOCRACIES , FOR ALL OF THEIR IMPERFECTIONS, FOR ALL OF THE SLOW 18TH-CENTURY CHECKS AND BALANCES, DEMOCRACIES CAN RISE TO THE OCCASION WHEN CALLED UPON.

>> DO YOU THINK NOW THAT EVERYBODY BELIEVES DEMOCRACY IS JUST GOING TO COAST AND WERE NEVER GOING TO HAVE RICES OF AUTOCRACY AGAIN?

>> I DON'T THINK THERE IS ANY COASTING INVOLVED AT ALL IN HISTORY AT ANY POINT.

BUT I DO THINK THE SECOND WORLD WAR SHOWS THAT WHEN THE DEMOCRACIES ARE AROUSED, WE CAN PREVAIL.

>> IT IS EASY TO LOSE SIGHT OF THE TRUE COST OF THOSE YEARS.

THE HUMAN COST.

WE SAW HUMAN BEINGS AT THEIR ABSOLUTE WORST , BUT WE ALSO SAW THEM AT THEIR ABSOLUTE BEST.

WILLING TO SACRIFICE THEIR LIVES SO OTHERS MAY LIVE.

EVERY SINGLE PERSON HAD A STORY.

THESE ARE THE STORIES THAT MAKE US WHO WE ARE.

>> IT ENDED 80 YEARS AGO, WHY ARE PEOPLE STILL SO FASCINATED?

>> YOU KNOW, SPIELBERG OR HANKS ONCE SAID IT WAS GOOD VERSUS EVIL AND GRANDPA ONE --WON.

I THINK THERE'S SOMETHING TO THAT.

AS YOU KNOW, YOU AND I GREW UP PROXIMATE TO THE WAR.

BOTH MY GRANDFATHERS FOUGHT.

ALMOST EVERYONE, BECAUSE OF THE SIZE OF THE ARMED FORCES, HAD SOME LIVING CONNECTION TO THAT WAR.

I THINK IT CONTINUES TO BE THIS MOMENT WHERE IT FEELS , I THINK IT IS IMPORTANT TO.

OUT --POINT OUT THE FEELING DOESN'T MATCH REALITY, IT FEELS AS IF EVERYTHING WORKED .

THE PROBLEM, OF COURSE, WITH THAT, IN THE COMPLICATION, WHICH GOES YOUR QUESTION A MOMENT AGO, IS I THINK IF YOU ASK MANY AMERICANS WHAT IS THE MOST IMPORTANT THING WE EVER DID , SOME MIGHT SAY THE ABOLITION OF SLAVERY, SOME MIGHT SAY WINNING THE SECOND WORLD WAR.

BUT LET'S ALWAYS REMEMBER THAT WE ONLY DECLARED WAR ON GERMANY WHEN GERMANY DECLARED WAR ON US .

FIVE DAYS AFTER PEARL HARBOR.

AS CHURCHILL SAID, YOU CAN ALWAYS COUNT ON THE AMERICAS TO DO THE RIGHT THING ONCE THEY HAVE EXHAUSTED EVERY OTHER POSSIBILITY.

YOU HAVE THESE FORCES WITH WHICH WE STILL CONTEND TO THIS HOUR OF NATIONALISM AT HOME, OF ISOLATIONISM, OF PROTECTIONISM, THIS IDEA OF FORTRESS AMERICA , THIS IDEA THE WORLD'S PROBLEMS ARE NOT OUR PROBLEMS, AND OUR POLITICS , EVERYTHING ABOUT OUR ECONOMIC POSITION IN THE WORLD GREW OUT OF THE SECOND WORLD WAR , AND THE TENSION BETWEEN , ARE WE GOING TO BE INTERNATIONAL OR ISOLATIONIST?

>> YOU WERE A WONDERFUL BOOK, FRANKLIN AND WINSTON.

IT IS ABOUT WINSTON CHURCHILL , LIKE A LOVE STORY.

WINSTON CHURCHILL COURTING FRANKLIN ROOSEVELT AND SAYING, YOU HAVE TO HELP US.

TELL US WHAT THAT COURTSHIP DID AND WHETHER THAT IS WHAT GOT THE U. S. INTO THE WAR.

>> WELL, IT HELPED.

CHURCHILL BECAUSE PRIME MINISTER ON MAY 10, 1940.

REMEMBER, HE SAID I FELT AS IF I WAS WALKING WITH DESTINY IN PREPARATION FOR THIS HOUR IN THIS TRIAL.

I WAS SURE I SHOULD NOT FAIL.

HE WAS THE ONLY PERSON WHO WAS SURE HE WOULD NOT FAIL.

ROOSEVELT USED TO KEEP THE CABINET, THE CABINET MEETINGS ON FRIDAY TO GUARANTEE THEY WOULD WORK ALL WEEK .

HE RECEIVES WORD OF CHURCH HILL'S APPOINTMENT.

CHURCHILL AT THAT POINT IS 65, WHICH IN THOSE DAYS MEANT SOMETHING.

HE HAD CHANGE PARTIES THREE TIMES.

HE WAS A GRAND OLD MAN OF BRITISH POLITICS BUT SEEN AS VERY ERRATIC.

HE WAS SEEN AS A TWO-FISTED DRINKER.

HE WAS SEEN AS SOMEONE WHO HAD BEEN WRONG ABOUT BIG THINGS IN BRITISH POLITICS.

FDR LOOKS AT THE NOTE AND SAYS, WELL, I GUESS WINSTON IS THE BEST MAN ENGLAND HAS, EVEN IF HE IS DRUNK HALF THE TIME.

THIS DID NOT BEGIN HUGELY WELL.

BUT WHAT CHURCHILL DID, AND HIS LAST DAUGHTER, LAST CHILD, MARY , SUMMED UP THE WHOLE PROJECT FOR ME WHEN SHE SAID, WHEN SHE THOUGHT OF PAPA AND THE PRESIDENT, SHE ALWAYS THOUGHT OF THE FRENCH PROVERB, THERE IS ALWAYS ONE WHO KISSES AND ONE WHO OFFERS THE CHEEK.

AND PAPA WAS ALWAYS KISSING AND FDR WAS ALWAYS OFFERING THE CHEEK.

CHURCHILL NEEDED TO BRING ROOSEVELT INTO THE FOLD.

AND ONE OF THE THINGS I THINK THE AMERICAN PEOPLE NEED TO REMEMBER, AND WE TEND NOT TO, IS HOW MUCH WE OWE THE BRITISH .

HOW MUCH WE OWE THEM FOR STANDING BETWEEN 1 SEPTEMBER 1939 AND 12 DECEMBER 1941 .

CHURCH HILL LOOKED ACROSS THE CHANNEL AND SAID, HITLER HAS GONE THAT FAR AND WILL GO NO FARTHER.

>> FOR THE BRITS ON THE BEACH, ABSOLUTE HELL SKATE.

OBJECTED DAY AND NIGHT TO COSTAL AERIAL BOMBARDMENT.

DIVEBOMBING.

THE BRITISH TROOPS ARE JUST ON THE SAND AND EACH TIME THIS HAPPENS, THEY ALL TAKE WHATEVER THEY CAN.

THIS GOES ON HOUR AFTER HOUR AFTER HOUR.

AS THEY ARE WAITING FOR DELIVERANCE.

>> YOU AND I ARE BOTH BIOGRAPHERS.

REWRITE ABOUT THE EFFECT THAT HUMANS, THE HUMAN HAND, HAS ON HISTORY.

SOMETIMES IN THE ACADEMY , THEY THINK HISTORY IS MADE BY GREAT FORCES.

LET ME ASK YOU ABOUT THE TWO OR THREE PEOPLE AT THE CORE OF THIS.

HAD HITLER NOT COME ALONG, HAD IT NOT BEEN FOR HITLER, WOULD ALL OF THIS HAVE HAPPENED?

>> I DON'T THINK SO.

I DON'T THINK THERE WAS -- GERMANY WAS OBVIOUSLY REELING FROM THE FIRST WORLD WAR.

THERE WERE DEEP RESENTMENTS ABOUT THE TREATY OF ACAI.

BUT THERE WAS SOMETHING -- TREATY OF VERSAILLES.

THERE WAS SOMETHING ABOUT HIS POPULAR APPEAL.

THE VICIOUS COCKTAIL, IF YOU WILL, OF EVIL THAT HE MIXED AND SERVED THE CHAIRMAN PEOPLE.

YOU KNOW, CHURCHILL WRITES , HE WAS ALSO A HISTORIAN, BUT WAS BETTER PEOPLE THAN EVENTS IN MANY WAYS.

HE HAS A REALLY INTERESTING PORTRAIT OF HITLER IN THE GATHERING STORM.

IT IS A TOUGH THING TO TALK ABOUT, BUT WORTH MENTIONING.

CHURCHILL SAYS HE UNDERSTOOD HITLER .

NOT LEAST BECAUSE , IF ENGLAND HAD BEEN DEFEATED AND TREATED THE WAY GERMANY WAS , HE UNDERSTOOD HOW A FIGURE LIKE HITLER COULD ARISE.

I THINK THAT HUMAN ELEMENT IS VITAL.

>> SOME OF THIS DOCUMENTARY IS SO GRUESOME THAT IT IS REALLY HARD TO WATCH.

WHY WAS THERE SUCH BRUTALITY IN WORLD WAR II?

>> IN MANY WAYS, I DON'T WANT TO SAY IT WAS NEW IN WARFARE, BUT THE MECHANIZATION OF GENOCIDE.

THE TECHNOLOGY .

WEAPONS WERE MORE SOPHISTICATED.

WEAPONS WERE DEADLIER.

AIRPOWER BROUGHT CIVILIANS, THE ROCKETS THAT THE GERMANS DEVELOPED , BROUGHT CIVILIAN POPULATIONS INTO THE CALCULUS, INTO THE FIELD OF FIRE.

I THINK TECHNOLOGY DOES WONDERFUL THINGS FOR US, BUT THE TECHNOLOGY OF WAR AND THE SPEED WITH WHICH WEAPONS CAN FIRE AND BE DEPLOYED HAS ITS DARK AND LAMENTABLE ELEMENT.

>> IN LESS THAN A MONTH, A MAJOR EUROPEAN NATION HAS BEEN REMOVED FROM THE MAP.

IN THE FIRST 24 HOURS OF THE INVASION, THE GERMANS TAKE OUT RAILROADS, BRIDGES, AND AIRFIELDS.

THE DESTRUCTION PAVES THE WAY FOR THE ARMY TO ADVANCE DEEP INTO POLAND.

>> POLISH CIVILIANS EXPERIENCED MODERN WAR IN AN UNBELIEVABLY HORRIFYING WAY.

THEY SEE PEOPLE KILLED.

IT IS A NIGHTMARE.

>> THEY HAVE A MODERN ARMY.

THE FIFTH LARGEST ARMY IN THE WORLD.

IT IS EQUIPPED WITH MODERN TANKS, WITH ALL SORTS OF ARTILLERY AND ARMORED TRAINS.

BUT HITLER HAS BEEN PUTTING ALMOST ALL HIS RESOURCES INTO EQUIPPING THE MILITARY.

THEY WERE OUTGUNNED.

>> DESPITE THOSE ODDS, THEY ARE DETERMINED TO DEFEND THEIR COUNTRY.

>> WHAT SURPRISED YOU MAKING THIS DOCUMENTARY?

>> I AM ALWAYS SURPRISED AT THE PURE SCOPE .

THE FACT THAT NO PART OF THE GLOBE , THE SMALLEST PACIFIC ISLAND , THE LARGEST EUROPEAN NATION, IS INVOLVED AND TOUCHED BY THIS.

THE OTHER THING THAT SURPRISED ME IS THAT I AM ALWAYS DAZZLED BY WHAT THE ARSENAL OF DEMOCRACY , TO USE FDR'S PHRASE, COULD ACCOMPLISH.

WE WERE THE 17th LARGEST ARMY IN THE WORLD WHEN HITLER INVADED POLAND.

THE UNITED STATES.

AND YET, BY 1945, WE HAD SENT MILLIONS OF MEN, MILLIONS OF WOMEN HAD BEEN ENGAGED IN WAR WORK .

THE CREATION OF IMMENSE WEAPONS .

IT SET THE STAGE FOR THE CREATION OF THE GREAT POSTWAR MIDDLE-CLASS.

IT HELPED SHIFT THE SENSE OF AMERICAN REALITY THAT HELP TO MAKE THE CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT POSSIBLE.

IT IS THE LARGEST EVENT IN HUMAN HISTORY.

>> YOU TALK TO JUSTIN ABOUT HOW WE WERE ABLE TO GEAR UP SUDDENLY FROM BEING THE 17th LARGEST MILITARY, AND THIS SEEMS TO HAVE TODAY, HOW COULD WE , AND TOM HANKS STRESSES IS, HOW COULD WE SO QUICKLY START MAKING THINGS?

>> THE INGENUITY AND THE WONDERS OF CAPITALISM.

YOU KNOW, DETROIT WAS READY.

AMERICANS MADE THINGS.

THAT WAS WHAT WAS SO REMARKABLE.

YOU KNOW, WE LINK TO THE CONTINENT WITH THE RAILROADS.

WE HAD PUBLIC SCHOOLS THAT HAD BEEN COMING ALONG .

DWIGHT EISENHOWER, I THINK, WAS THE FIRST AMERICAN PRESIDENT TO GO TO A PUBLIC HIGH SCHOOL .

THERE WERE ONLY SOMETHING LIKE SIX OR SEVEN PEOPLE WHO MADE ALL THE WAY THROUGH THE SCHOOL SYSTEM IN ABILENE BECAUSE SO MANY KIDS GOT PULLED OUT TO WORK.

BUT YOU HAD A SPREADING POWER OF EDUCATION THAT HELPED CREATE PEOPLE WHO COULD BE ENGINEERS, AND WHO COULD BE SKILLED WORKERS .

YOU SAW THE REMARKABLE CAPACITY , NOT JUST DEMOCRACY, BUT DEMOCRATIC CAPITALISM TO RESPOND TO A CRISIS.

>> LET ME THEN PUT SOME POINT ON WHAT YOU HAVE BEEN SAYING AND WHAT THIS DOCUMENTARY SAYS.

THAT SEEM RELEVANT TO TODAY.

WHICH IS, WE DECIDED THE IMPORTANCE OF EDUCATION.

WE FIGURED OUT HOW TO CREATE A MIDDLE-CLASS THAT HAS SECURED JOBS AND GOOD WAGES.

WE DECIDED HOW TO MAKE THINGS.

WE UNDERSTOOD THE VALUES OF DEMOCRACY .

WE KNEW WE WOULD HAVE TO GET INVOLVED IN THE WORLD TO STOP TYRANNY.

DO YOU THINK THAT ALL THOSE LESSONS WE STILL HOLD THEM AS TRUE TODAY?

>> IT IS PART OF THE REASON TO TELL THE STORY.

I WORRY ALL THE TIME .

I THINK ALL OF US HAVE TO GIVEN THE LAST DECADE IN WHICH NATIONALISM , WHICH IS IN ALLEGIANCE TO YOUR OWN KIND, HAS PREVAILED OVER THE DEFINITION OF PATRIOTISM, WHICH IS ALLEGIANCE TO A CREED THAT WHOEVER PLEDGES ALLEGIANCE TO OUR DECLARATION ABOUT WHICH YOU HAVE WRITTEN TO OUR CONSTITUTION, OUR RULE OF LAW, THEN YOU CAN BELONG.

NATIONALISM, WHICH WAS AT THE HEART OF THE FASCIST ENTERPRISES AROUND THE WORLD , IS A DURABLE AND SNEAKY VIRUS.

IT IS PART OF THE HUMAN BODY POLITIC.

WE HAVE TO FIGHT IT.

AND IT RECURS.

IT IS RECURRING TODAY.

NOT JUST IN THE UNITED STATES, BUT AROUND THE WORLD.

AND SO, THE LESSON OF THE SECOND WORLD WAR SEEMS TO ME TO BE AS CLEAR AND AS RESONANT AND RELEVANT AS IT HAS BEEN AT ANY POINT SINCE 1945.

WHICH IS, THE RULE OF LAW , THE SANCTITY OF THE INDIVIDUAL, AND A SENSE OF INTERNATIONAL ORDER IN WHICH WE SEE EACH OTHER NOT AS ENEMIES, BUT AS NEIGHBORS .

IF WE FALL AWAY FROM THAT, CHAOS RESULTS.

AND WE SAW THAT IN THE 1930s AND 1940s.

WE SAW IT IN THE 19 -- 19 TEENS.

THERE ARE AUTOCRATS ON THE MARCH AROUND THE WORLD , AND WHAT WE HAVE LEARNED AT OUR PERIL IS THAT IF WE LET THEM MARCH FREELY, CHAOS RESULTS.

>> TOMORROW WE CELEBRATE OUR 250th .

JULY 4.

ACTUALLY A WONDERFUL SPEECH , I THINK FRANKLIN ROOSEVELT GIVES THE 9041 ABOUT THE FREEDOMS, AND HE INVOKES THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE.

TELL ME WHAT YOU HAVE LEARNED FROM THIS DOCUMENTARY AND WHAT YOU ARE GOING TO BE THINKING ABOUT ON JULY 4.

>> WE HAVE TO REMEMBER ON THE FOURTH OF JULY, AND EVERY DAY, THAT THAT WAS THE DAY THAT AMERICAN SCRIPTURE REALLY CAME INTO BEING.

EVERY GENERATION CAN JUDGE ITSELF BY THE DEGREE TO WHICH IT LIVES INTO THE DECLARATION OR THE DEGREE TO WHICH IT FALLS FROM IT.

THAT WAS TRUE IN SENECA FALLS.

IT WAS TRUE FOR FREDERICK DOUGLASS.

IT WAS TRUE, AS YOU SAY, FOR FRANKLIN ROOSEVELT, WHO SAID IN HIS STATE OF THE UNION IN 1941 , YOU LISTED THE FOUR FREEDOMS, FREEDOM FROM FEAR, FREEDOM FROM WANT.

HE LISTED THEM, AND THE PHRASE IN THE SPEECH WAS , WE MUST DEFEND FREEDOM FROM FEAR EVERYWHERE IN THE WORLD.

HE REPEATED THE PHRASE EVERYWHERE IN THE WORLD.

WHEN HE WAS PRACTICING THE SPEECH, HIS AIDE, HARRY HOPKINS, SAID YOU KNOW MR.

PRESIDENT, I WOULD CUT THE PHRASE EVERYWHERE IN THE WORLD, BECAUSE NOBODY GIVES --NO AMERICAN GIVES A DAM ABOUT WHETHER THERE IS FREEDOM IN JAVA.

FDR LOOKED AT HIM AND SAID, HARRY, THE WORLD IS GETTING SO SMALL THAT THEY ARE GOING TO HAVE TO CARE.

I THINK IT WAS TRUE THEN, AND LORD KNOWS, IT IS TRUE NOW.

>> JON MEACHAM, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

>> THANKS.