AMNA NAWAZ: Welcome to the "News Hour."

The White House is threatening to use a looming government shutdown to drive mass layoffs at federal agencies.

GEOFF BENNETT: And that's with the funding deadline that lawmakers appear almost certain to miss just days away.

Our congressional correspondent, Lisa Desjardins, and White House correspondent Liz Landers are here with the latest.

So, Liz, we will start with you.

Last night, the OMB director, Russ Vought, he told agencies to prepare shutdown plans that include permanent layoffs?

What more do we know?

LIZ LANDERS: We obtained this memo late last night.

It was sent over by the Office of Management and Budget.

And, in it, it says that they are preparing for a potential shutdown.

And some of this is normal and they have had some planning calls apparently about this week.

And there's some politics in here, some finger-pointing that the administration is doing, Democrats, in particular, saying that they are inching closer to a shutdown over a series of insane demands, including a trillion dollars in new spending.

But this note goes farther, and what it suggests is that the agencies could use this moment to do mass layoffs.

It says: "Agencies are directed to use this opportunity to consider reduction in force."

And, as you know, Geoff, this agent - - this administration, I should say, has really relied on these RIF notices, these reduction in force mechanisms, to really slim down the federal government in the last seven or so months of the Trump administration.

GEOFF BENNETT: That's right.

And we should make clear that the threat of permanent cuts is new.

How do these agencies typically prepare for a possible shutdown?

LIZ LANDERS: So it's normal for an agency to put out a contingency plan, and they usually post those on a Web site.

And the White House currently has some of this up right now, saying that agency contingency plans for a lapse in appropriations are hosted on each agency's Web site.

We tried to find what those contingency plans would look like, and from a lot of the major federal agencies, we didn't see any updated contingency plans.

So, basically, what that means right now is, we don't know who is going to be deemed an essential worker who keeps the government functioning, critical issue -- critical functions of the government that we need, who may be furloughed, and who may be part of this reduction in force.

So, right now, federal employees around the country are waiting to find out if they are impacted by this RIF or not.

GEOFF BENNETT: Yes, lots of confusion.

So, Lisa, you have been talking with your sources on the Hill, as well as the unions that represent federal workers.

How do they see this threat of mass layoffs by the Trump administration?

LISA DESJARDINS: Somehow, we yet again are in uncharted territory.

And you're right.

Federal workers are right in the middle of it.

So, talking to the largest union for federal employees, which is the American Federation of Government Employees, they put out this statement they sent to me and to others, saying that: "The only path forward is compromise.

Federal employees are not bargaining chips."

And that gets to this idea of RIFs being on the table.

They see RIFs as patently illegal.

Now, the argument there, talking to a former official with the Office of Personnel Management, is that the law governing shutdowns says that, when you're shutting down, H.R.

for each agency is only supposed to be doing shutdown activities, figuring out who stays and who goes, and that a permanent RIF is not a shutdown activity.

What it is, is reorganizing government.

And that's the argument this is illegal.

Now, in reality, as we have seen the Trump administration do, they will make their argument that he has that power and they will wait for courts to act, which will take much longer.

Meanwhile, federal employees who have been promised to be paid after shutdown now have a new concern, which is that they could lose their jobs entirely.

Now, I also want to mention about Democrats, where they are all with this federal workers being in the crosshairs moment.

They right now are saying this is an intimidation scheme.

It's not changing their strategy for the shutdown.

But, privately, some Democrats admit they are worried that maybe some aspects of a shutdown could lead to worse consequences, things they don't want to happen for government.

GEOFF BENNETT: So let's talk more about that.

Where do things stand?

Because the Senate Democratic leader, Chuck Schumer, was on this program last night.

He described President Trump as derelict in the way that he's going about handling all of this.

Is either side budging?

It appears they're not.

LISA DESJARDINS: Yes, this is a high-stakes game of chicken right now.

And what we're seeing is Democrats actually emboldened, because they think Republicans have made some missteps, including the president canceling not meeting with them.

Today, we saw Hakeem Jeffries, the House Democratic leader, again go in front of microphones.

He is trying to make a statement here by having news conferences every day at the Capitol saying, hey, I'm here.

I'm ready to meet.

Now, in reality, also, Republicans have canceled not just the first couple of days of session next week, but all of next week.

I spoke to a Republican member tonight.

And I said, aren't you nervous about not being in town during the shutdown?

He said, no, I don't think voters are going to care after this is over.

That's the risk that Republicans are taking.

I also want to walk people through, because this is a lot to talk about, a basic 101 of what is needed to avoid a shutdown, because it hasn't happened yet, right?

So, first of all, the first thing obviously is the House majority has to pass a funding bill.

That has happened.

House Republicans passed that bill.

Now, this is what Democrats have rejected.

And the Senate needs to have 60 votes to pass a funding bill.

Now, they're eight votes short right now of getting that done.

So that's really where the holdup is.

That's where Democrats have leverage, because you don't need a lot of Democrats, but you do need more than they have right now.

Where are we with the shutdown?

I'm sticking with my 80 percent chances.

They could maybe have a short-term funding bill, but no one's even discussing it right now.

GEOFF BENNETT: Yes.

And quickly back to something you said, Lisa.

House Republicans, they canceled the session for next week.

What reason did they give?

LISA DESJARDINS: They said they don't think there's any reason to come back once they have passed their bill for funding, and they're leaving it up to the Senate.

They're really just trying to jam Democrats in the Senate.

But they say, we have done our job.

They need to do theirs.

GEOFF BENNETT: All right, Lisa Desjardins, Liz Landers, our thanks to you both.

LISA DESJARDINS: You're welcome.